[00:00:00] Intro: We’re saying goodbye to the rigid numbers and strict budgets, and putting relationships back at the heart of personal finance. This is more than a podcast. It’s an invitation to reimagine your money story, and journey with us through a landscape of intuitive strategies and abundance. Join a community that nurtures transformative financial mindsets.

[00:00:25] Welcome to Intuitive Finance. I’m your host, Dylan Bain.

[00:00:36] Dylan Bain: Hello and welcome to Intuitive Finance. I’m your host, Dylan Bain. We’re coming at you today with another interview, this time with Dr. Jeremy Goldberg. Dr. Goldberg is a recovering scientist turned life coach who speaks fluent burrito, is a ferocious never-giver-upper, an empathy collecting, anti-quitting, word wizard and connoisseur and collector of fine silver linings.

[00:00:59] People pay him to make them cry. He’s worked internationally for governments and universities for over a decade. He spent five years studying how brains influence our actions. He even wrote a PhD thesis about it. He’s managed teams of multiple people and millions of dollars.

[00:01:15] In addition to his academic background, he has an honorary doctorate in the School of Hard Knocks. He, in fact, and we talk about this in the interview, hit rock bottom. But he planted a seed, has grown a haunted house into a home, and climbed out of the hole his mind had made for him. And now he helps others to do the same and get them to where they really truly want to go. I’m telling you what, this one is probably one of the most off-the-wall interviews I’ve done so far. We go over a ton of different topics. Dr. Goldberg has been on the TEDx series talking about kindness. His email list is amazing. His retreats and workshops are one of a kind. By all means, ladies and gentlemen, please give him a follow. You might find him by his professional name, which is Long Distance Love Bombs. But without further ado, ladies and gentlemen, Dr. Jeremy Goldberg.

[00:02:03] Welcome to the podcast, Dr. Jeremy Goldberg. Thank you so much for being here. Welcome.

[00:02:08] Dr. Jeremy Goldberg: Hi, Dylan Bain. Good to see you, brother. Thanks for having me.

[00:02:12] Dylan Bain: Good to see you too. And just for the audience. I know that when you first came out of the scene, you were known as Long Distance Love Bombs. So I just want to get that up here in the intro. But I want to key off our conversation today, and I want you to talk to me about kindness. Talk to me about what that means to you and how that integrates into your life and the work that you do.

[00:02:31] Dr. Jeremy Goldberg: Yeah, so kindness is kind of the fundamental foundation upon which I developed my business, which is called Long Distance Love Bombs. And it started way back in the day as a kind of mistress side project to my PhD research. I was in a government cubicle and I was working for the man, and wearing collared shirts, and had this thing on the side where I was just writing little encouraging messages and insights and leaving them scattered randomly around the world, basically. And I like the idea of surprise and of trying to make a difference in the world. And then at the university that I was studying at, the TED talk came to town, and they were hosting a TED talk. And I applied and I got accepted after a very interesting chat with the organizer.

[00:03:24] And I stared at her and was like, I want to give this fuck— TED talk. Is there anything else you need to hear from me to make this happen? This is like a dream of mine. I’m going to crush this thing. And so I gave a TED talk called What If Kindness Was Cool. And that essentially distilled my vision, my origin story, which started with a woman at an airport, and she was crying and she was alone and I wanted to do something nice to her. And I just saw her being surrounded by a crowd of people, ignoring her, staring at magazines and telephone screens. And from that point forward, I was like, what if kindness was cool? What would that world be like? What if compassion was commonplace? What if empathy was popular? What would it look like?

[00:04:04] And so I just view kindness as a root solution to a lot of the root problems that we have in this world related to addiction, violence, us versus them mentality. I think a heaping helping of kindness and compassion would do a lot to unify us. Not to get too cliche and woo woo, but I think we often will lose the idea that other people are more similar to us than we understand. And so, I started just writing a bunch of like fortune cookie type slogans and articles and inspiration and trying to inject positivity into the world. And the more personal development I did on myself, and the more I learned, I started somewhat shifting my content towards self-compassion, self-kindness, because if you can’t be kind to yourself, it’s going to be very difficult to be kind to others.

[00:04:58] And so now, a lot of the work I do now is in the personal development space. Got a podcast, a book, I coach people all about trying to understand essentially the stories that we tell ourselves, and enabling a bit of sovereignty and agency and responsibility towards making better decisions and choosing different belief systems that will create a different version of ourselves in the world that we desire to see.

[00:05:25] Dylan Bain: Those are a lot of hard hitting words. It’s right at the end of that. So I want to come back to sitting in the government cubicle working for the man, but I do want to like, just — could you say more about that self-compassion and kindness and how it relates to agency, sovereignty and all the rest?

[00:05:42] Dr. Jeremy Goldberg: Yeah, so a couple of years ago, I was on this hike with a friend of mine and we were on this dirt path going through a forest, and I looked to my right and there was just this tiny little path that wasn’t very well worn that went between the trees. And I stopped, and I was like, oh whoa, that looks like the start of a new trail that looks like somebody is just starting to go over there. There might be something interesting in that direction. And then I had a little rant about the idea that a lot of the things that we do, the ways that we operate our personalities, our identities, our habits, our rituals — they’re often just these mindless repetitions based upon past experiences, past consequences, et cetera and we’re not consciously choosing them. Whereas that little path off to the side, the first time you do it, it is — you’re knee high, you’re getting scratches from the weeds and the thorns. You don’t know where you’re going. And it’s harder than just traversing the well worn trail that you know, that you’re familiar with.

[00:06:46] And I think for a lot of us — for myself in particular, I got really comfortable with suffering and pain. And it felt familiar, and it felt normal, and I was able to tolerate it. And I knew that I could survive essentially, versus the unknown, uncertain, freshly blazed path through the trees and the weeds, I don’t know where that’s going, but the story that I created around that unknown uncertainty was scary and it was hard and it was terrifying.

[00:07:17] And so what I’m most interested in doing when I work with people and even in my own life, when I’m reflecting or daydreaming, is to become more aware of the various forks in the road in life. That might be available that I might not even notice or that I’m not present to and so it’s hey I’ve been doing this life or I’ve been viewing the world in this way for so long And I don’t even see these other paths because I’m so used to walking this one that I kind of shut off I’m not even present to the alternatives that might be around me.

[00:07:55] And so, when I think about kindness or compassion to myself, it’s like, hey, are there ways that I can talk to myself that are healthier, more supportive, more encouraging, more healing, more therapeutic — like, just better? Can I be nicer to myself? Are there ways of looking at the world and the decisions that I’ve made that are less harmful, less toxic, less bullying? And when I zoom out, I just fundamentally believe that a more compassionate and kind and nurturing approach to myself and to other people is better — it’s more conducive to getting me where I want to go, versus holding a lot of harshness and negativity and disdain for who I am and what I’ve done, right? And so as an example — like, I used to be really good at drinking alcohol. Like I still am, I’m sure, but.

[00:08:53] Dylan Bain: You and me, both brother. You and me, both

[00:08:55] Dr. Jeremy Goldberg: I could put down a beer or two. Like, I was really good at blacking out — we used to call it time traveling, where you just wake up in the morning and it’s — what happened? And so I used to be really good at that. And then I started considering my choices and exploring, why am I drinking so much? What does it do for me? What does it save me from? How does it benefit me?

[00:09:16] And in that experience, there is one part of me that was like, you drunken loser, you alcoholic, you fucking dickhead, you’re not doing anything with your life. And then, so that is one path that I was walking down to continue that analogy for a while.

[00:09:35] And then one day you read a book, you have a conversation, you hire a therapist, you have a chat and it’s like, oh, there’s different ways to explore this. It’s Gabor Maté talks about this when he’s working with — he’s a famous writer, psychologist, MD and he’s working with addicts. And his take is, thank God for the drugs and thank God that you found those drugs, because that was the only thing that was strong enough help you survive the pain and the trauma that you went through. Thank goodness for the drugs. And so that’s one example of creating this fork in the road whereby it will flip the entire script, right? The way that you view life, the lenses through which you live, your life can change everything.

[00:10:21] And so long, long story short, like I’m a big proponent of trying to navigate life and navigate my relationships with a lens of compassion and kindness, and perhaps giving people the benefit of the doubt, injecting a bit more humanity where I can, because I just see that as a more loving approach to life and like, life is hard, man.

[00:10:50] Dylan Bain: Totally.

[00:10:50] Dr. Jeremy Goldberg: Life is a dog fight sometimes in the haunted house that’s burning down next to a dumpster fire. It’s — there’s a visual for you.

[00:10:59] Dylan Bain: I love this.

[00:11:00] Dr. Jeremy Goldberg: And in those times, like you look around and I’ve been there, you’ve been there. We’ve all been there at some point where it’s like, it doesn’t help to like, throw more gasoline on the fire. Buddy Wakefield has this great line. “Why are we not fighting fire with water?” Compassion will not make us lazy. And it’s that. It’s like, life is hard. We’re doing the best we can. Let’s throw a little bit of water on the fire instead of continuing to fuel it without thought or care for the impacts.

[00:11:33] Dylan Bain: Amazing. Well — and I love when you talk about that. Life is a dogfight sometimes. Because I think that’s where people get to, is they get to this place where they’re in that dogfight, in a haunted house that’s on fire, next to a dumpster fire — maybe they even live in Mississippi. It’s just this cacophony of things. And then they say I’m the problem, rather than looking in through this haunted house and saying, no I’m actually the solution here. I’m the way out. And so I absolutely love that. But if I’m familiar with your own story, you went through that too, because I’m talking to Dr. Jeremy Goldberg PhD, who’s not doing PhD stuff. So there had to have been a path for you where you are going down that path, getting scratched in the bushes, so to speak, having the dog fight, and saying yes to a life that was more fulfilling to you. Can you tell me more about that?

[00:12:21] Dr. Jeremy Goldberg: Yeah, I’m still in the thorns in the weeds daily, right? So perpetually trying to learn and grow and uplevel and expand I’ve learned is — discomfort is a requirement for that in some regard. But I mean, my story — the synopsis was I spent like a decade working in science. I worked in multiple countries. I worked for the U. S. government. I worked for the Australian government. I was in cubicles. I had the swipe card. I was publishing scientific papers in very reputable journals. I did a Master’s. I got a PhD. Like, I was on the path of a career employee, right? Like, I was a capable scientist. And it’s that cliche story whereby I had it all. I had the girlfriend, I had — I live near the beach, I was making good money. My dreams were coming true. And yet something was missing, like that whole cliche story.

[00:13:24] And what I realized one day after a breakup — I went down to the beach and I had my journal and I wrote on the page in big letters, hearts change their minds. And I was kind of talking about my relationship that had just ended, like sometimes hearts change their minds, and what you’re feeling, what you’re longing for, what you desire is different. And it shifts. And what I realized too for myself was that the dreams that I had all those years ago to get a professorship at a prestigious institution, and have a research team, and publish in nature, and do groundbreaking world class research like that no longer lit me up, like that was just no longer my dream.

[00:14:11] And that was a really difficult process to experience, because if I didn’t have those dreams and I didn’t have that path, and I didn’t have the steps that I was taking for a decade towards the path and those dreams, then who was I? What was my life? Because I didn’t have a specific immediate answer like, oh, I’m going to leave my government job as a scientist and I’m going to be a painter, and I’ve already opened a gallery, and people are buying my paintings all over the world. It’s — I just kind of knew that I didn’t want to do that. And I had what I call these little heart whispers to buy a rusted van, and just drive around America for a while and fill my cup back up.

[00:14:59] Dylan Bain: And was it critical that it was rusted?

[00:15:04] Dr. Jeremy Goldberg: No. It was — it’s critical that I was not very well funded as a PhD student and that I could afford a rusted van. And these little heart whispers of hey Jeremy, don’t apply for jobs. let’s just go camping. It’s hey, go to America, leave Australia. And that was really hard because it made no sense because on paper. I’d spent a decade building my dream life. I’d finally got to the summit of the mountain. I’d got my PhD. My supervisor was encouraging and loving and amazing and one of the best in the world. And I remember her saying to me, we should start getting you to apply for jobs.

[00:15:49] And I felt nauseous in my body. There was nothing I wanted less than to apply for jobs. And I remember her saying, but Jeremy, how are you going to make money? And I was just slumped in my chair and I said, I don’t know, I have no idea. But what I was doing in that moment was essentially answering that little heart whisper. That hero’s call for Joseph Campbell’s kind of thing. I was like, I’m answering the call.

[00:16:15] And the call for me was fucking leave this all behind for now. Go get in a van, fill my cup, drive around, and take a chance on living the life that lights me up. That doesn’t make sense, that I can’t explain that my family and friends are like, what are you doing? You’re going to do Long Distance Love Bombs. What is that? Are you a military contractor now? Yeah, I got 700 followers on Instagram. So I’m just going to like, sell stuff. And it was hard, man. It’s hard. And looking back, I’m really proud of that decision. And I’m proud of it because I think in our world today, it takes a tremendous amount of bravery to put yourself first and to back yourself, and to believe in yourself enough that you’re okay looking the fool, or that you’re okay, risking the potential of failure, whatever that means, however you define it. To take a chance on complete aliveness at the expense of mockery and misunderstanding from those that care about you most. And I just love that I did that.

[00:17:35] And I think I got to a place before that decision where I had made peace with that possibility of this might not work out, like I might not make any money. I might have to go live with my mom and beg for food and be a grown ass man with a doctorate and no money living with my mom, and how embarrassing and humbling would that be? And to my point earlier, like another option is what a beautiful thing that I will always be supported, and that I have loved ones that will feed me and house me even if all my dreams fall apart. And what a fucking blessing and a privilege that is. And I think privilege is a responsibility. And so it was like, I’m going, I have a responsibility to take advantage of this privilege. I’m going to go and do my best, however that works out.

[00:18:31] And what I realized, Dylan, was if it all fell apart and it all went to shit, what would most likely happen was I would go and apply for jobs, and I would likely get one. Because I have a doctorate and I’ve published papers, and I was pretty well connected, and I have a good resume, and my job would be working in a cubicle with a swipe card and a collared shirt, just like I was doing right now. And so when this moment landed for me that I was already living my worst case scenario, I like, couldn’t not do it. And it’s like, oh, I’m already where I don’t want to be. Why not take a chance on getting where I want to go?

[00:19:13] And I’ve talked to so many people like this of — that people that are scared to ask somebody out on a date. And it’s, you’re already not sleeping with this person. Like, the worst that happens is that you just keep not sleeping with this person. They already don’t love you. So like you’re risking the idea of love, but if it doesn’t work out, like they already don’t love you or asking for a raise or a promotion, it’s like, if they say no, you still are getting the same pay at the same job that you already have. There’s no risk other than to a bit of pride and discomfort. It’s like, take a swing back yourself. I remember very distinctly kind of slinking back in my chair and being like, oh my God, I’m already living my worst case scenario. And that moment was like so liberating to me, man. It was like, I got nothing to lose. I felt free.

[00:20:05] Dylan Bain: Absolutely incredible. So I think that’s the money shot of the entire episode. It’s going to be, we’re already not sleeping with her. You can’t sleep with her any less.

[00:20:13] Dr. Jeremy Goldberg: Dude, you want to hear this story?

[00:20:16] Dylan Bain: I do.

[00:20:17] Dr. Jeremy Goldberg: Okay. I was in Mammoth Mountain, California years ago. This is like when I was young and still really good at drinking. And it was me and my buddy. And then across from us at a booth, we’re two friends of ours. So there’s four of us. And we were in this Irish pub in Mammoth, California. And the two guys across from me, both were telling these stories, basically, that they had a crush on a girl, on a woman, and they’ve been friends with these women for years, and they had these crushes. And me and my other buddy laid into these guys with the same kind of logic here of yo, even if you ask her out and 999 out of a thousand she says no, there’s still that one in a thousand chance that you get to kiss this woman. Like, you might see her naked. We were young and being crude a little bit but we’re like, you might fall in love. Yeah, like it might work out for you. It’s that like, scene from Dumb and Dumber when he says, so you’re telling me there’s a chance, right? When she says, not even one in a million or whatever? We were like hammering these guys.

[00:21:23] It was like, yo, you’ve got to take a chance, it’s worth it. What if it might work out? If it doesn’t work out, you’re exactly where you are right now. Not dating them, not sleeping with them, not putting your tongue in their mouth, right? So anyway, long story short, both of those guys ended up marrying those women.

[00:21:42] Dylan Bain: No shit!

[00:21:43] Dr. Jeremy Goldberg: And they — yes. And they both have kids, and they’re both still married after, 10 years or whatever. And they have families with them now. And it’s, I don’t know necessarily how much our intervention helped, but I, of course, selfishly, I like that version of the story. But the same principle applies is you might be living your worst case scenario already. So why not? If you’re listening, why not? Take a chance, ask the question, see if it works out, cause it, it’s cause it might.

[00:22:15] Dylan Bain: For my money, you were the deciding factor, right? Like it’s clearly, that’s what happened there. A hundred percent. I love this because I guess I never thought about framing it in this idea of are you already living your worst case scenario, right? Because if that’s the truth, then anything is better, right? And I’ve seen this where people are living in avoidance story or a control story, where they’re like, I can’t do this. Or even if I tried, it wouldn’t matter. And so they’re adopting this do nothing strategy, because they think if I do nothing, nothing can go wrong. If I do nothing, I’m not responsible for anything. And I’ve said before, that has a 100 percent chance of failure. If you were given the option of 0.1% chance of success or 100 percent chance of failure, which one do you want? And I’m gonna roll the dice every single time. I wasn’t always that man, but I certainly am now.

[00:23:06] Dr. Jeremy Goldberg: Yeah, a hundred percent. And I relate to that. It’s that old adage about the invention of the ship is also the invention of the shipwreck, right? So when you admit to yourself that you want something, then that also invents the possibility that you might not get it, right? And if you decide, hey, I’m going to ask this person out on a date or, hey, I’m going to go to the gym or I’m going to get a raise or whatever. The requirement for that aspiration is the possibility that it might not happen, right?

[00:23:39] And so, for a lot of us, it’s easier to simply not try, not go all in, not take a chance, because you’re saving yourself the potential heartbreak of that not happening. But what we often don’t realize is that you’re also marinating in the heartbreak and the suffering of never knowing what may happen. And that’s just a different form of pain.

[00:24:03] And so I’m a big proponent of trying to choose the most exciting form of suffering possible of yeah, it’s really uncomfortable to like, ask somebody out on a date, or quit your job, or start a business, or launch a podcast, or share your art with the world, or take a chance, etc., like this super uncomfortable — and to me, it’s often the most exciting, the most exhilarating, the most alive, right?

[00:24:28] So, I think we often neglect to realize the tremendous amount of discomfort or despair or suffering that we’re already marinating in because we’re so used to it, right? It’s — you don’t actually realize where you’re at because you’re immersed in it all the time. It’s like that David Foster Wallace keynote about the two fish that are swimming in the water, and the old fish swims by and is like, oh how’s the water today, boys? And then swims off. And they’re like, what is water? They don’t even understand what water is because they’re surrounded with it all the time.

[00:25:02] And I think for many of us — and I know I’ve been there and I probably am there right now — I just don’t even realize it, but we have blind spots of pain or stress or like suffering that we’re carrying around. And we don’t even realize how burdened we are by it because we’re perpetually carrying it on our back, you know? And then someone comes up and was like, do you want to put that down? And you’re like, what, put what down? Like you have a giant bag of unnecessary strife on your back here. Let me take that off you for a minute, right? And so, I don’t know. I’m trying to like perpetually shine some light on myself and other people in hopes of alleviating suffering and creating a more empowering sense of aliveness.

[00:25:48] Dylan Bain: I love that. The fish in the water example is something that I think is really salient. If you’ve grown up in a particular scenario or everyone around you is in a particular scenario, that becomes the homeostasis. That’s the safety of the tribe. That’s just who we are. It becomes an identity thing. We’ve all run into this repeatedly in our lives, right? And there’s also the idea of, what do you do about that? So like in your scenario, there’s somebody coming along and saying, hey, have you noticed this? But I think that there’s also another opportunity to say, I don’t like where I’m at. So let me just start — let me get myself permission, self-compassion, sovereignty, to be able to say I can do a small experiment and see what happens.

[00:26:28] Dr. Jeremy Goldberg: A hundred percent. Yeah. That audit — I call it like an audit when I start to work with clients, it’s like, where are you right now? Who are you right now? What do you believe? How much money do you have perhaps in your context, right? How much debt do you have? What are your assets? Like, where are you actually at right now? And that can be a really uncomfortable scenario for many of us. And I think it’s why a lot of us avoid doing the work, or going to therapy, or opening our bank account balances, right? Because it evokes a sense of discomfort, or it forces us to admit that our lives are not what we want them to be, or what we wish they were, or that our lives have not gone the way that we anticipated when we were younger, right?

[00:27:26] And so, there’s this reckoning between the expectations and the reality that can be really tough to explore and heal alone, which is why it’s so powerful to have men’s groups, coaching sessions, good friends, et cetera. It’s hard.

[00:27:43] Dylan Bain: A hundred percent. Well, and to be able to change your social context enough to be able to say, yeah, this is the right thing for me. And then I think about this with people who come in and they say, I want to, they all believe they have to be entrepreneurs. Entrepreneurs are like 1 percent of the population, chances are good you’re not part of it, right? And that’s okay. I think there is something to be said for people who are highly resistant to climbing a corporate ladder. There’s nothing intrinsically wrong with climbing a corporate ladder so long as you do it for the right reasons in my opinion.

[00:28:16] In your case, you looked at it and said, there’s nothing true for me here. And I’m going to go get my rusted van. I’m going to go drive around and I’m going to encourage guys to pick up random girls and Irish pubs in Mammoth. Perfect. Like it. That’s what’s true. And for other people, I like growing my home. I like going to work, punching the time clock, coming home, and I’m fine with that. And I’ve separated work and life so that I’m not this thing, and now I’m able to live a life with intentionality. And this is — I live my life and my work is what supports that. And that’s it. And I think that those types of permissions are so important. But I loved what you said about having it in that social context, hiring a coach, finding a men’s group, finding a group of people, or as I’ve said, find the person who has the life you want and then go hang out with them. Go figure out who it is that’s got what you want, at least in one realm, and go figure out that. Go up to them and ask them two questions. What did you do and how did you do it?

[00:29:15] Dr. Jeremy Goldberg: And if you were me right now, what would you do? It’s like, you’ve been here before. Yeah, I love that, man. It’s tough. It’s tough. We’re all trying to figure this out on our own somewhat. And I think it’s — again, like a tremendous act of bravery and humility to ask for help. There are people out there, there are resources out there, oftentimes in our own pockets. Podcasts, books, libraries, friends, family, resources that we don’t even realize that we have that if we did a quick audit and explored the possible alternative solutions or the things that we could rely upon. Many of us have a tremendous amount that we’re not taking advantage of.

[00:29:57] Dylan Bain: 100%. Well, one thing that you touched on there was that there is this network out there, right? There’s so many people in this world who look at this one guy would be a — pick an industry, right? There’s this one guy and he will get on there and be like, I did this by myself and no one believed me. And it’s — well, hold on a second. And I heard this recently from a bodybuilder. And he was going on that, that it’s all you, it’s all you, it’s all you. And somebody asked him like, well did you have a trainer? Did you have a nutritionist? Did you have a doctor? Did you have a team? And he was like, oh yeah, I had all this stuff. Like, you can watch somebody like Hafþór Björnsson pull the world record deadlift and he’s surrounded by a bunch of guys, and every one of those guys was a part of that thing, right? So the idea that somehow we’re supposed to do it by ourselves I think is just a bunch of hooey.

[00:30:45] Dr. Jeremy Goldberg: A bunch of hooey indeed. Yeah, because it’s just not true. And we’re not hardwired for that. We’re social creatures. If you go back far enough too, all of us were babies. Like really, nobody helped feed you or claimed you for literally years of your life? You never had a teacher that taught you how to read or write or do math or anything? And even if it wasn’t a formal direct encounter, you never watched a TV show or read a book that taught you something. Really? You just did it all yourself? Nonsense, right? And so, I don’t know, man. I also go back to this idea that I’m a really lazy person.

[00:31:29] Dylan Bain: So is the man with the PhD.

[00:31:32] Dr. Jeremy Goldberg: Yeah, I know. I’m ambitious, but I’m lazy. I’m efficient. And so if there’s a way to do something that gives me a certain result that is the least amount of pain, suffering, and time possible, then I’m intrigued to learn about that. And I think it’s a lot of what drives the people like you and I that are in this industry and in this work is, yo, I spent years learning the hard way how to do a B and C and I wish, oh my God, I wish somebody would have sold me X, Y, and Z for 30 bucks or a hundred bucks and it would have saved me two years of struggle and strife and would have made my life way better. So for me, I know that. You get it. But if I can learn something that will give me a little bit of an edge, then I’m interested in that.

[00:32:29] I don’t know. I am a guy that reads the directions when I put things together and I look at maps so that I don’t get lost. It just seems to make sense. Like, why would I spend eight hours putting this thing together when I could read this sheet and take an hour? And then I have seven hours of life gained, which is the most valuable thing that we have.

[00:32:50] Dylan Bain: I’m going to make this — that little snippet is going to be like mandatory listening for everybody who comes into my coaching practice, because you get so many people who are like, I should know how to do this all. Why? We evolved from a species of apes whose sole purpose in this world was to eat, fuck, and stay out of the lion. Full stop. That’s it. Those are the three things they had to do. And if they did those three things, they were successful. So why would you know how to budget or network or whatever else we put into this life?

[00:33:20] And I think about even in my own story, a lot of what you’re saying is really resonating with me because I was a math teacher for eight years. And I loved that job. I loved working with these kids. And it all came crashing down when my principal told me she needed me to commit fraud, called me in and said, hey, I need you to change these grades. I told her no, and I’ll never forget her exact words. Contracts haven’t come out for next year. Jobs are hard to find this town. Maybe you should ask yourself what type of man your daughter needs you to be.

[00:33:50] And I went — you talk about being good at drinking — I went home and I found the bottom of a bottle because I didn’t — here I am, I’m poor, I’m on welfare, I’m working multiple jobs, it’s not making the bills, and I, similar to what you were saying about — this was it. This was the worst case scenario. Anything was going to be better. But I also look back at that young man, that new father, and think to myself, man, if that guy had the spine I have today, if that guy had listened, if he had been curious, if he had invested in himself, even a little bit, I don’t think my principal would have ever asked me to do that. It was because I was so used to not choosing myself or choosing everyone but myself. And so much of what you’re saying is just resonating on this idea that, oh yeah, we need help. We need other people. We need examples.

[00:34:38] Dr. Jeremy Goldberg: Yeah. Are you saying that the teacher could feel who you were and felt comfortable asking you to do that thing versus if you had this energy or this persona, it’s like you would never ask me to do that because you know the answer ahead of time. Is that what you mean?

[00:34:53] Dylan Bain: Oh, 100%. Well, so before that, it was always I’m going to do everything I’m asked. I’m going to be the perfect teacher. I’m gonna — I’m a team player. This was the thing. You’re a team player, Dylan. Just cooperate, go along to get along. It is what it is. All of those were like mantras for everyone in the school. After I’d gone through graduate school, got my CPA, worked in capital markets, that’s my job before the one that I have now, I was asked to do something that I knew wasn’t correct. And I sat with that guy and he told me, I really need you to do this. And I looked at him and I told him he was adorable. And he was like, oh okay. And he never came up again. I mean, how many ways did I say yes to my principal such that she believed that there was no way I was going to say no? How did I invite that in to me because of all the ways I rolled over and chose everyone but me beforehand?

[00:35:44] Dr. Jeremy Goldberg: Yeah, and I would offer that’s why you went and found the bottom of a bottle. Not because she asks you to do that, right? It’s like the deeper, oh, I’ve become a person to whom people ask things like that, or I’ve let myself down, or I’ve created this identity where, that I’m not proud of, right? And so the confrontation again with your present experience forces you to take a long, hard look at your life and your decisions and what you’ve created, and then to invoke the extreme bravery required to try to make some changes. So good on you, man. I mean, it seems to have worked out. You’re doing all right.

[00:36:30] Dylan Bain: Yeah, I can’t say that I’m disappointed with the results. It’s just, listening to your story makes me think of and I — they always say like when you podcast or you speak, you do anything, know who you’re talking about and right underneath your — we’re, recording this as a video — um, there’s a picture of me on my first day of school as a teacher. And I’m always talking to that guy. What does that guy need to hear? And when you were talking about sovereignty and self-compassion and your story of being uncomfortable and that’s okay, like that guy needed to hear all of that on repeat all the time, because I think your message of kindness, specifically self-kindness, I would agree with you — it is what we need and we need it in spades. Tons and tons of people need it in spades.

[00:37:16] Dr. Jeremy Goldberg: Yeah, I agree. I agree. I just view it — had a conversation earlier, I think I mentioned to you this guy George (@TheTinMen) who was on my podcast, and we were talking about exactly that of, looking ahead into the future five or 10 years. The things we’re talking about now, how we’re showing up, what we’re arguing about, what we stand for, what we’re writing about. If we took a time machine to the future and we’re looking back at now, would we still be proud of the work that we’re doing? Or do we believe we’re on the right side of history? Are we leading the charge towards somewhere that we really believe is the place that we need to get to, right?

[00:37:59] And I view just kindness and compassion and understanding and humanity for me and my brand and what I stand for — it’s just, it’s the most logical, reasonable, why the fuck can we not all agree to do this thing imaginable to me? Can we just take a step back and maybe have a deep breath, and just remember that the other person’s trying their best, and that we’re all human, and we all have dreams and hopes and despairs, and we’re all trying to navigate this wild, ridiculous journey, and we’re gonna — we’re gonna have some missteps, but like, we’re not evil assholes for the most part — sometimes.

[00:38:48] But I don’t know, man. I just — for me, I think it’s a really important process. And I think when I look back at the changes that I’ve made in my own life and the improvements that I’ve lived, and the vast transformation that I have undergone as a human being, I think that kindness and self-compassion and self-love and self-acceptance are core attributes to every part of every piece that would have made that journey more manageable, easier, more enjoyable, and quicker.

[00:39:27] I just think it’s often put into this box or this bag of woo woo spiritual nonsense of oh, yeah, you’re a real manly because you’re compassionate, or yeah, let’s just hug it out. And it’s like, well yeah, maybe we should. And I believe that kind hearts are strong hearts. I believe that sharing weakness is a sign of strength. And I think that especially for men — and then I know that you know this with the work that you’ve done and the stuff that you do — like, it matters. And it’s a big deal. And so, I think I’m just trying my best to live the example that I want to create. And I’m doing that in my relationships and my friendships, and the work that I do on the Internet, and the podcasts that I go on, and the words that I say, and I’m just trying to be the best version of myself possible. And I think that in doing that, I remember that we’re all trying to do that too. And I think if we’re just a little bit more understanding of each other, it’ll go a long way.

[00:40:38] Dylan Bain: So if people are listening, specifically for men, when you said, oh, it’s really manly to be compassionate. I feel like our society is geared up because it’s an economic machine to keep everyone in a siege mentality, right? We’re all fighting, we’re all competing, we’re always doing these things. But when I look at my life, and life in general, I kind of feel like that battle part is only about 10%. So if we become gods — and this is what ended up happening for me after I left education, I became a god in the realm of getting shit done and being able to do this stuff. And then, I turn around, five years have gone by, I’ve tripled my income, I’ve bought a house, I’ve created security, I’ve flipped my net worth from negative to positive, and my wife is like a day from divorcing me. Right?

[00:41:25] And it’s like, why isn’t she happy? And having to have this thought in my head of, did I like, miss something? And then realize I was like, no, not only did I miss something, I missed 90 percent of the game. I missed the part where I need to be able to deal with her joy and her tears. I missed the part where I have to create safety on an emotional level for my daughters. I missed the part where my time and my presence is more valuable than my production. Like, all of those things, like you talk about the record scratch, there was the record scratch for me of, that’s required too. And here comes Aladdin with singing A Whole New World across my mind, right? He’s going to show me everything else.

[00:42:05] If there’s somebody listening to this who’s, man, I am just jonesing on what Jeremy’s saying, but I want one thing I could do to start bringing me in more in alignment. What would you recommend to that person?

[00:42:18] Dr. Jeremy Goldberg: That’s a good question. One thing that I do, or one little snippet that I’ve summarized it in, is simply get still and feel God. And that’s like this cliche woo woo thing of, I believe that there’s this ongoing negotiation between the body and the mind is often very active. Shouting, worrying, judging, preparing, et cetera. And when I can quiet that down, like turn that volume right down, and cultivate stillness, then I’m able to access this energy. And I can’t even believe I speak like this now because I’ve become a man that I used to make fun of completely like, oh okay, bro. Yeah, nice nose ring. Yeah, so I should just meditate and then my life’s going to magically work itself out. That’s cute. Nice story.

[00:43:15] But I think when you talk about getting to where you want to go, and you talk about a displeasure with where you are now, it’s an alignment issue. It’s an integrity issue, meaning the things that you say and the things that you do are not fully aligned. The things that you want and the things that you are spending time on are not aligned. You’re not like, aligned in that sense, and so there’s a requirement to get really clear about who you are and where you want to go. And often times, that requires peeling back various layers of social, cultural, and familial expectations that are masquerading as your own truth. Meaning, I should have a big bank account, I should have a huge ripped body, I should have these hobbies, I should be this kind of dude.

[00:44:11] And when I say get still and feel God, what I mean is, what are those little internal whispers for you as a human being, for you as an individual, for you as a man, that’s like, hey, what is true for me right now? What do I need? What do I want? What lights me up? And alternatively, what do I not want to do anymore? What is draining my soul? What is leading me towards a place I no longer want to go? What have I outgrown, right? And so, this is a long way to say that I think clarity is the antidote to much of what ails us. And when we’re really clear about who we are and what we want and what we don’t want, then that provides a map or at least a North Star to aim for, right?

[00:45:06] Because many of us are adrift and wandering and lost in the wilderness. And I’m a big proponent of putting a flare gun up or a stake in the ground, or choosing some vague direction even if it is pushing away from where I am now. I don’t know where I want to go, but I know I don’t want to be here, so I’m going to stop doing all of these things. I’m going to not talk to these people anymore. I’m just going to try anything else to get me closer to something that feels better. And through a repetitive, devoted process, practice, you get better at that. It becomes easier. You start to build some momentum, right? You’re like, maybe I don’t want to go north anymore. I want to go north by northwest, and so you adjust as you go. So clarity and then action, really. You got to do some shit.

[00:46:00] Dylan Bain: Well, this has been an amazing conversation and I would love to just keep jamming for the next five hours on it, but we’re at time. If somebody is like, I want more Dr. Jeremy Goldberg in my life, where can they come and find more of you?

[00:46:13] Dr. Jeremy Goldberg: Yeah, so my business is called Long Distance Love Bombs. You can just Google that. I have a podcast, Long Distance Love Bombs Podcast. I just recorded my 200th episode.

[00:46:25] Dylan Bain: Hey, congratulations!

[00:46:26] Dr. Jeremy Goldberg: With our mutual pal Traver Boehm, thank you. I wrote a book called It’ll Be Okay, And You Will Be Too. And I’m most active on Instagram @LongDistanceLoveBombs. I do events and workshops and retreats. I got the whole personal development starter kit, online courses, all that stuff.

[00:46:45] Dylan Bain: Unbelievable. Again, thank you so much for coming on and I hope to be talking to you again real soon.

[00:46:50] Dr. Jeremy Goldberg: Yeah, brother. Thanks for having me.

[00:46:53] Dylan Bain: Thanks for listening. The conversation doesn’t end here. Please share the show with friends and make sure you keep up with all the latest updates on Instagram and Threads @TheDylanBain, and dive deeper into the world of finance with me at DylanBain.com where you’ll find insights, resources, and strategies to reimagine your money story.